Lap Battle Rule Discussion

[Biggie™]

Okay, here goes... I am sure these will be heavily contested, but the are a necessary evil. Please read through these pulmonary rules, and I'll put a brief explanation of them after. Let me know what you think.


Official rules are now posted here... http://LapBattle.com/rules.html

[Spectre23]

Looks good to me.  I can see a couple things people might not like, but I like the rules just like they are.

[Matt Guiver]

What about a tire width limit, say no more then a 275?
(to help limit cost on widebody, and tires?)



And how about a displacement limit of no more then 4.5 liters?
(to keep the target of the series on our sponsors market)

I really like the simple approach to classing and rules, no arguments, simply be faster.    

I also envision a time in the future when we can support an unlimited class, but I do not feel the majority of our community is ready for this yet.

[Biggie™]

What about a tire width limit, say no more then a 275?
(to help limit cost on widebody, and tires?)

There are several cars that don't need a wide body to fit tires larger than a 275. Trying to limit costs in a class with no limitation on engine modifications is futile.

[Spectre23]

What about a tire width limit, say no more then a 275?
(to help limit cost on widebody, and tires?)

Seems like a terrible idea to me.  Look at the new Evo X, supposedly it will fit 305's under stock fenders.  The new STi will fit 295's.  The only reason to limit tire size, is not going to be for cost, it would be to help out the people that have old crappy small fender cars.  Sure, they may have to incur extra cost to fit 305's, but they will still be in it less than someone buying a new car.  Besides that, older lighter cars can get by with less tire anyway.

I can see doing a displacement limit.  But I don't think it is too critical.  All it would keep out is vette's.  But are they really that big of a threat.  Yes, I know it would keep more out, I was just listing THE competitive one.

[Matt Guiver]

fair enough about tire limits, older cars do have less tire clearance, but they are also typically lighter as well so dont need as much tire. 

What about the viper 

[Spectre23]

fair enough about tire limits, older cars do have less tire clearance, but they are also typically lighter as well so dont need as much tire. 

What about the viper 

I almost listed the viper until I remembered an article in a magazine I read that said the new Viper was almost 2 seconds slower than the Z06 on the track they tested at.  That, and the fact that nobody that has ever bought one knows how to drive.

[yodaddy]

What exactly does "no car built or ready for competitive road racing" mean? no roll cage? full interior? liscenced? That one seems pretty vague. The main reason I ask is that I am worried about "ringers" finding loopholes. I know of one person specifically that I wouldn't even bother showing up if I knew they would be there. And depending on the way the rules read, he may or may not be able to compete. Also I would suggest being ready and able to change rules throughout the season, especially as far as adding new classes. You never know, you may get more interest than you expect.

[Biggie™]

Also I would suggest being ready and able to change rules throughout the season, especially as far as adding new classes. You never know, you may get more interest than you expect.

The limited classing has far more to do with available time/space than anything else. As it sits right now, we can accommodate 5-20 entrants in each class. Adding more classes will increase the likelihood of having a class with limited entrants and reducing the prizes, spreading them thinly between several more class winners.

And between Matt and I, we spent a good portion of 2006 and 2007 at MMP events. We know who and what has been on track running door to door. The intent of the Lap Battle events is to motivate and attract regular SCCA autocrossers and PDXers to a more exciting, rewarding and higher profile driving event. We are NOT looking to recruit from the MPRA road racing ranks nor do we believe that the vast majority of them are our sponsors' target demographic.

[gsea]

First of all, can I just say how exciting this is? I pretty much epitomize the target group here, want something beyond autoX and PDX, but I don't have the time or money for a MMPRA , or other full-on race campaign. I have a pretty quick street car, and have been annoyed that there hasn't been anything "competetive" and exciting geared towards that amateur street car demographic. And, prizes! Awesome!

This seems to remove a lot of the barriers to entry for a lot of people, especially with the simplistic rules and classing. My only concern is the same as some as has been expressed by some others, that with such vague rules defining car eligibility, you will surely just get a few ringers in there winning every time that nobody will be able to compete with.

I like the idea of clearly defining what a "street car" is.

Hopefully this is going to be a place for driver's to stand out and win for their abilities, and not just sweep the thing because of a killer car.

As far as classing, perhaps leaning towards HP/weight ratios would be a little more fair than just drivetrain. Then you have a 240sx running with, say, an integra, instead of against some 500hp corvette.

Also, if you put a limit at 4.5L, you eliminate 80% of the American cars that are even remotely useful on a track, then you have just an import war, which would be lame for the rest of us.

What we can come up with to make it more fair and competetive. I'd hate to see it die out after a few events because everyone everyone gave up after realizing it was going to be owned by the same dink every time.

[dtcevo]

What exactly does "no car built or ready for competitive road racing" mean? no roll cage? full interior? liscenced? That one seems pretty vague. The main reason I ask is that I am worried about "ringers" finding loopholes. I know of one person specifically that I wouldn't even bother showing up if I knew they would be there. And depending on the way the rules read, he may or may not be able to compete. Also I would suggest being ready and able to change rules throughout the season, especially as far as adding new classes. You never know, you may get more interest than you expect.

ya i would like some clarification on this as well.  as we have discussed aaron, this season i am making the jump from lapping to racing.  i would love to come and even compete in the front wheel drive class.  but according to the rules i am not allowed.  just wondering.  my civic is nothing special.  stock GSR motor with all required safety equipment for competing in miller's small bore class.  does this mean i cannot participate?

[dtcevo]

also just because the car is a dedicated race car, does not mean it is the all out fastest.  many dedicated race cars are built for a specific class.  so they are not allowed an all out build list.  i out ran many "race cars" in my WRX last year.  not to boast or anything, but these cars were simply built for a restricted class and not allowed many power mods.

just wondering your guy's thoughts on this?

[Matt Guiver]

Thanks to everyone for taking part in this rules discussion.  The intent of the "no race cars" rule has been from the start to keep out "ringers".  And as far as high hp street cars well thats exactly what we would like to see, so Jason bring your WRX!  We would love to accomodate everyones classing but its just not feasible at this time.  The cost of putting such an event on goes beyond our pockets. 

Also remember even if you dont win the money, its still cheap track time.  And you get to definitively gauge your improvement as a driver with timing.  So its an even better deal.  Dont let a faster car/driver spoil your fun, just practice, improve your car, and get faster!

We are also aware that race cars are built with limitations, but currently they are also in general significantly faster then the majority of our sponsers target demographic.  But remember as our demographic evolves so will our sport!

[Matt Guiver]

The main reason I ask is that I am worried about "ringers" finding loopholes. I know of one person specifically that I wouldn't even bother showing up if I knew they would be there. And depending on the way the rules read, he may or may not be able to compete.

Dont worry I wont be driving for your moneys  , but I can be available to help competitors get faster, or even turn a fast lap for them to show them what their cars are capable of!

And its pretty apparent for us if the car has competed in a wheel to wheel race before.  We have been around the block for quite some time.  Trust us we want it to be even playing field as well.  (though truly fair racing does not exist )

[dtcevo]

Thanks to everyone for taking part in this rules discussion.  The intent of the "no race cars" rule has been from the start to keep out "ringers".  And as far as high hp street cars well thats exactly what we would like to see, so Jason bring your WRX!  We would love to accomodate everyones classing but its just not feasible at this time.  The cost of putting such an event on goes beyond our pockets. 

Also remember even if you dont win the money, its still cheap track time.  And you get to definitively gauge your improvement as a driver with timing.  So its an even better deal.  Dont let a faster car/driver spoil your fun, just practice, improve your car, and get faster!

We are also aware that race cars are built with limitations, but currently they are also in general significantly faster then the majority of our sponsers target demographic.  But remember as our demographic evolves so will our sport!

ya, i can see your point.  the problem is the WRX is getting sold to fund the race car.  oh well, there is always small bore.